Prop 8

My hiatus is due to the denial I've been in after realizing the whole bigfoot thing was a hoax.

On a different note, here is my latest explanation of my support for Proposition 8. It was written in response to this post and the comments. Read them all if you have an hour or so, as they provide some context to the response.

"Shannon Davis summed up what I feel is the strongest argument defining "fundamental rights" and explicating court decisions outlawing polygamy. I will try and add to those to the best of my ability. Her arguments lead us to more philosophical assumptions. We delve into the realm of moral relativity.

You are agnostic, but you have morals. Therefore morals are not inherently religious. So I have a question. Do Prop 8 opponents support NAMBLA (http://www.nambla.org/)? Do a consenting adult and a consenting minor have the fundamental right to have intercourse? Can a 45 year old man have intercourse with your 9 year old son? Assume both parties consent. I would hopefully assume that most people, including you, don't condone that. So is it a "fundamental right" to do that? NAMBLA thinks so.

You see, just about everyone has some commonality in their morals. We have another example in child pornography. So long as little children consent, why can't they monetarily benefit by posing in sexually explicit, or implicit for that matter, ways? The answers to this question will cover the field, but all arguments ultimately boil down to the fact that something is inherently wrong. And there we have it. That word that moral relativists can't stand. Wrong.

Polygamy is wrong.

Child pornography is wrong.

Sexual relationships between boys and men is wrong.

Things that are wrong...are wrong.

Who ultimately decides what is wrong? Well, that's a completely different argument. But when it comes to moral boundaries and the law, someone has to draw the line. Society would quickly spiral into absolute chaos were moral relativism to reign.

In the current debate, a seeming majority of the people, be it due to religion or some other motive force, feel that gay marriage is wrong. Californians have been given the opportunity to draw a moral line in the dirt. People of all backgrounds are voting to do just that. The fortunate or unfortunate result is that the majority will decide what "fundamental rights" people actually have. Californians will place a moral absolute (albeit most likely temporary) on the definition of marriage based on what the majority feels is right or wrong.

But let us not confuse moral rights with "fundamental rights." Fortunately for the GLBT community, society will not deprive them of any fundamental right. Every one of them can still be legally married to someone of the opposite sex. For others who want to enjoy a Registered Domestic Partnership with some of the same sex, they according to the California Family Code section 295.5, "Shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses." So the FACT is Kevin, domestic partnerships ARE the same thing legally. The reality is, they are different because they are not marriages. They never will be. So let's not call a spade a club.

I perchance say the vast majority of the world population views marriage as an institution that transcends government. But marriage inherently implicates governmental recognition. However, government doesn't ultimately possess the right to define marriage. The people, the society, the culture of California do.

Marriage between a man and a woman is culturally deemed a moral right and a civic fundamental right. Domestic partnerships between any two consenting adults, enjoying everything that spouses enjoy, is a civic fundamental right.

And finally, the Civil Rights Movement and the Gay Rights Movement are hardly comparable. Regardless of how hard I try, I can not, in no way, be African American. In fact, I would have loved to have been African American when I was applying to dental school. But it just can't happen. It's impossible. I can't choose my race. I can choose to marry someone of the opposite sex, or to enter a domestic partnership with some of the same sex. Humans' ability to choose differentiates these two movements. If you want, we can take this argument down the same moral relativity path to drill in the point. But our choices have consequences that individuals can't ultimately choose. So, after a bunch of logical connections...blah, blah, blah...homosexuals can't be married because homosexual couples can't marry. Society at large has already determined that consequence. Homosexual couples are only deprived of something their choices have already excluded them from.

In my mind, one of the few powers still possessed by the people is the ability to vote on ballot propositions. I am confident that the people of California will, as a majority, uphold the worldwide time-honored, evolutionarily sound, liberally unpopular definition of marriage."


lauren said...

well it's about damn time you posted about this. i have been anxiously waiting.

i'm really proud of you and ash for all of the work you have been doing furthering this cause. i appreciate the time and effort you have taken to truly educate yourself on the issue at hand and have strong intellectual arguments throughout. i am so plugging this post (and ash's posts) on my blog today.

and i will be voting yes in spirit.

Anonymous said...

Did you really just compare gay marriage to pedophilia? All I can say is WOW!

I honestly was undecided on this Prop 8 thing, until I read this horrific post. Now I'm proud to say I voted AGAINST it. So thanks, your ignorance helped me to see the light.

Blogdor said...

WOW! Anonymous. I was hoping someone wouldn't point out the gaping hole in my comparison...wait, I never made that comparison. But you further assured me that antagonists to Prop 8 don't understand the logical arguments that were presented by protagonists.

By your tone it sounds like you feel that I equated homosexuality with pedophila. In other word I said, "homosexuality is equal in moral gravity to pedophilia." You'd be hard pressed to find that quote in my blog post.

The intended emphasis throughout the post was that moral relativism has permeated our society. What was once overwhelmingly viewed as morally wrong 50 years ago now is only viewed as morally wrong by 52.5% of the population of California. By that line of reasoning, it isn't hard to imagine a world in 50 years that has removed the stigma around polygamy. It isn't hard to imaging the erosion of the moral barrier keeping homosexual adults from marrying homosexual minors. Nor is it hard to imagine in a world where, "My actions only affect me," laws criminalizing child pornography being challenged on the basis of First Amendment fundamental rights. You see, somebody thinks pedophilia ins't bad. But more people think it is bad. So who makes the call?

In yesterday's vote, the people of California made the call. The majority of voters in California feel that homosexual marriage is wrong, on one level or another. Fortunately in our country, the people still have the power to define their moral boundaries through ballot initiatives.

I'm not saying I'm not ignorant. But your ignorant reading or ignorant misinterpretation of what was stated helped you to decide your vote. Thanks.